Hustle and Flow with Special Guest Maisie Hill Ep #77

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This week’s episode is just for you girls! Kristen has a special guest and they’re talking all about the dreaded “P” word: our periods. And it’s not what you might think. Instead of the standard conversations around menstrual cycles and why you might be craving chocolate, they get into how hormones affect productivity and what that means for your business.

This week’s episode is just for you girls! Kristen has a special guest and they’re talking all about the dreaded “P” word: our periods. And it’s not what you might think. Instead of the standard conversations around menstrual cycles and why you might be craving chocolate, they get into how hormones affect productivity and what that means for your business.

Join Kristen this week as she welcomes her friend, the author of Period Power, founder of The Flow Collective, and certified life coach Maisie Hill. Together they’re working to shed some light on a topic most of us would rather overlook. 

Here are a few key points:

  • How the hustle narrative can lead to adrenal fatigue (and why that’s a big deal)
  • The importance of understanding your cycle and how it can afford you permission to rest
  • Why being able to predict the ebb and flow of your energy in relation to your cycle and how it can help your business
  • How your cycle (and your business) goes through seasons
  • When linking self-worth to productivity causes rest to feel confrontational

Don’t judge yourself for something that happens naturally. As your bodies go through their cycles, your energy levels can change. Instead of fighting nature, you can instead work with it by planning accordingly. This creates a more sustainable narrative that will serve you and your business better in the long run.

If you’d like to follow Maisie on Instagram you can find her here: Maisie Hill

You can check out her website at

Or you can click here to listen to her podcast.

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Transcript for Episode #77: Hustle and Flow with Special Guest Maisie Hill

Kristen Boss (00:00):  Welcome to Purposeful Social Selling with Kristen Boss. I’m your host, Kristen Boss. I’m a mindset and business coach with more than 15 years experience in both the product and service based industry. I believe that social selling is the best business model for people wanting to make an impact while they make serious income. This is the podcast for the social seller, who is tired of feeling inauthentic in their business and desires to find a more purposeful and profitable way of growing their business. In today’s social media landscape. In this podcast, you will learn what it takes to grow a sustainable business through impactful and social marketing. It’s time to ditch the hustle and lead from the heart. Let me show you the new way.

Kristen Boss (00:48):  Hey bosses. Welcome to another episode of the podcast. I’m super excited today. I have a really special guest for you. I have my colleague and my friend Maisie Hill with us, and she is the author of Period Power. She is also the founder of The Flow Collective, acupuncturist to the stars and acupuncturist and friend, colleague and certified life coach. Like there’s just so much to say about Maisie and I’m so thrilled you’re here with us today, Maisie.

Maisie Hill (01:18):  Thanks for having me. I’m like this is going to be so much fun because I’m just so into business and being entrepreneurial. But you know, I’m often just talking about the menstrual cycle and hormones and not necessarily through that lens. And it’s literally my two favorite topics. So you have made my dreams come true by giving me a space where I can talk about both at the same time.

Kristen Boss (01:44):  I love it. And it’s going to be such a refreshing conversation for my audience to be a part of. I think they’re just going to be like drooling over your amazing accent. I’m always like Maisie. Just talk to me and tell me stories so I can hear you talk. So

Maisie Hill (01:59):  That was from one of the first like exchanges we had. Cause I love sending people voice notes that I think you actually might’ve said. Just tell me anything.

Kristen Boss (02:07):  Yeah. Tell me anything. I just want to hear you talk. I love it. I’m so glad you’re here. And just if I have any male listeners, which I don’t think I have a ton, we’re going to be talking a lot about the female body hormones. And this episode is called hustle and flow and flow. We’re talking about amp flow and how that actually deeply relates to how we show up in business and how we show up in our work and productivity. And the reason why I wanted you on the show is because like you said, it’s the perfect combination of what your zone of genius is the female body and really understanding ourselves and integrating that into business. And my audience has heard me talk a lot about less is more essentialism and how the hustle is an extremely toxic narrative that is actually a masculine narrative.

Kristen Boss (03:03):  And I think some of my listeners are still wrapping their mind around that. Like, what do you mean? Why is it toxic? And they tend to think hustle as like an activity. They’re thinking like, oh, it’s, if I’m sending a bunch of messages in a day and I tell people, it’s your way of being, it’s how you show up in your work. It’s how you care for your body. It’s how you approach work and respect your body. And I’ve been starting to talk about it and I’d love for you to just kind of take the mic from here and just kind of share a little bit about how you got into your work and why this is so important and meaningful for you and why women need to take ownership of understanding their body and their periods. But part of the reason why I decided to, you know, kind of have this conversation is because I really feel like my audience needs the education around it. And I’ve been starting to talk about how hustle actually causes damage to our body, to our emotional health, our mental health and our physical health and people often think of the activity. So tell me listeners just a little bit about your journey and why you do what you do.

Maisie Hill (04:17):  Well, my journey really started back as a teenager when I had my first period and I had cramps and they were quite painful and my mum just kind of said, well, you know, this is it. This is how it’s going to be. And my periods were painful. I went on the hormonal contraceptive pill in my late teens, really just to like manage that pain because, you know, the pill stops you from having periods. So you just have withdrawal bleeds, which are very different, but we can save that geeking out for another point in time. Anyway, I took it to deal with that pain, but you know, I didn’t get on with the pill and it’s, you know, affected my mood. It effected my levels of sexual desire. So I came off it, but then I was faced with the period pain again.

Maisie Hill (05:06):  So I went on this quite intense journey trying to resolve that pain and to get rid of it because I was at the point of considering surgery, investigative surgery to see if it was something like endometriosis. And I was like, well, I’m open to having that surgery, but before we do that, let me just go through everything I feel I can do on my part before making that decision and going through with that. So through that process, I just like really started geeking out on everything related to the cycle hormones, the impact of stress, the nervous system, how will those things interplay? I started training as a practitioner. I got my degree in Chinese medicine. I trained with like all the best in this field and was just able to bring that all together in a really unique way, because I love geeking out on Western medicine.

Maisie Hill (06:04):  I love the Chinese medicine lens as well. I love looking at the emotional side of things and also, you know, bringing in life coaching as well and, you know, understanding the nervous system. So I have, I think like quite a unique perspective to offer because I’m able to bring all those different lenses together in a really accessible way that makes sense to people. So I just realized that right from my one-on-one work, like all of my clients, wait, could you just do that diagram again? And I can show my sister, or do you mind talking to my friend about that because they need to hear this. And there’s only so many times you can hear that before you like, yeah, I think I need to write a book. So this message, you know, this with writing yours so that this message can go out and impact as many people as possible. So that’s what I did.

Kristen Boss (06:57):  Hmm. I love that so much. And I really love how you talk about really understanding the nervous system as well, because that is what we do so much of our coaching around our life coaching. And I have this joke inside my programs like my students learn to calm down and why calm is the million dollar emotion. And it’s just learning to be present with your nervous system and calming your nervous system down as a business owner is probably the best gift we can give ourselves, right?

Maisie Hill (07:27):  Oh 100%. Because when we’re in, you know, the part of our nervous system where we feel safe and connected and social that’s when options are available to us, it’s when our brain can consider option possibility, willing to take risks. Cause it’s like, yeah, the world is a safe place for me to be. I can give this a go. And, oh, that’s an option for me as well. And so we can think in this really expansive way that serves us really well. And we can problem solve from that calm, centered place. Versus if we’re going to our parts of the nervous system where we are activated and we’re in fight or flight, that’s when less options are available to us, because we’re just like, how do I get out of here? Like, this is stressful. I’m in danger, there’s a threat. How do I get out of here? So we get more black and white. Like, there’s all I either have to do this or it’s going to be this. And like, we get quite dramatic in our thinking and that’s not a great place to be operating from when you’re running a business.

Kristen Boss (08:32):  I think what’s surprising is how often people operate from that space in their business. The majority of the time, I would say the majority of business owners have actually conditioned themselves to only work in a fight or flight response and it causes their nervous system to be in a complete overload. And I think that’s why I ended up getting adrenal fatigue is my body was so used to being in fight or flight, like pumping adrenaline, pumping, cortisol, just being like, oh, we’re, we’re trying to survive. This is what we do. And that was all from the hustle narrative.

Maisie Hill (09:07):  Yeah, because it’s glamorized. Right. And that’s like what we are socialized to think being successful and working hard looks like, right. It’s like rushing around yelling at people, making decisions on the fly, like, oh, horrible, horrible, horrible. And the reason that impacts us so much when we, for so many reasons, but when we go, when we’re in fight or flight, if that’s not working for us, where we go to is collapse and withdrawal. Right. So that’s when we start to shut down, I call it going into ostrich mode. That’s what it looks like for me when I’m heading in that direction. And it’s also like, I, I know the telltale signs is like, if I’m a bit stressed and a bit activated in that fight or flight mode, I know when I’m going into collapse, when my boyfriend says to me, what do you think you’d like to have for dinner?

Maisie Hill (10:04):  What should we have for dinner? I’m like, why are you giving me choice? Just, just give me a yes or no, or just put it in front of me. And like, that’s how I know we’re going into collapse. And for many people, that’s what it will look like. Like just hopelessness, like choices are hard and we just need to lie down and be left alone or numb out, like watch things on Netflix. And again, when you’re being an entrepreneur, like being consistent, showing up all these things are important. And particularly if you have a menstrual cycle, then when you’re going into fight or flight, like you’ll do that. And then you’ll just exhaust yourself often in line with like how you journey through each menstrual cycle. And then you just reach the point of burnout in each cycle where you just have to lie down and recover so healthy. This is not a healthy way to be living your life. But also it’s not a healthy way to be running your business.

Kristen Boss (11:01):  Well, and people don’t know different. This is like, they think that this is normal. Just like you were saying, when you were 13, your, your mom was just like, welcome to periods. Welcome to being a woman. This is just how it is. And I’m so glad you brought up the cycle of like this intense activity with the need for a nap or exhaustion or the collapse that had happened at the end of the month. And what’s so fascinating or just whenever the cycle ends. What’s so fascinating is this, isn’t the pattern of 90% of my listeners in the audience. They end up like going into a flurry of activity and they have no boundaries. It’s absolutely insane. Kind of from this like scarcity driven, oh crap. I have to go make money. I have to like increase my paycheck. I have to, they become a flurry of activity, but they overdo it.

Kristen Boss (11:49):  They overcompensate. And then what happens is they always reach and they, then they feel this need to like take a break from their business, take a nap. They’re exhausted. And then they feel like they have to ramp themselves back up to take activity again in their business. And then each month is this vicious cycle of like flurry of activity than exhaustion. And then taking a break and then taking a break. It costs them because they’re not being present at all in their business because they’re in ostrich mode. And so then when they come back, they’re panicked because they took a break. So why is it so important for women to understand, like why is understanding their body and their menstrual cycle? Why is it so deeply related to how we function in our business and our productivity?

Maisie Hill (12:37):  Oh, that is such a great question. Because to me, the menstrual cycle is the most underrated tool that we have. And I say that as someone who has had debilitating pain and also raging PMs, might I add, so it can still be at all, maybe particularly at all for you, if you struggle or suffer in some way with physical, mental, emotional issues that are related to your cycle. And by the way, you’re only going to know if it’s related to your cycle, if you track your cycle. So that’s a key component in, this is like tracking your cycle and paying attention because hormones influence everything. We have hormone receptors littered throughout our body. Like they are everywhere. So they affect our cognitive ability, our mood, our energy, our behavior, our physical appearance, literally everything. And it’s so funny because sometimes people say to me, yeah, but like, isn’t that just, you know, a kind of negative way to, to think about stuff as a female.

Maisie Hill (13:44):  Like, is that like being a bad feminist or something along those lines? And it’s like, yeah, but I think for anyone in your audience, like think about a time when you might have been in a low hormonal state. So if anyone has had a baby postpartum, you have low levels of estrogen. And that’s why it’s so painful. Trying to get up off the floor when you’ve been playing with your kid and your knees and your back are hurting because your joints are impacted. It’s why you can’t remember things. And you can’t describe, I remember like trying to describe to my boyfriend where something was and I could show him where it was, but I couldn’t get out the verbal skills to describe it to him. So, you know, hormones really do affect everything. And that’s so important to know when we’re talking about business, because there is kind of, I would say a set of superpowers.

Maisie Hill (14:38):  This is what I talk about in the book, assesses superpowers, and a set of pitfalls associated with each phase of the cycle. And when you know what your particular ones are, you can actually use them and you can use them in a really powerful way to create the kind of results that you want in your life and in your business. And you can do that in a sustainable way that doesn’t sacrifice your health and wellbeing in the process, or sacrifice your relationships. Because often we’re like leaning into business and like, that’s where we’re like push, push, push. And then you’re like going home with all that stress snapping at the people around you, not having time for your relationships and connection. So, you know, we’re really looking at everything here.

Kristen Boss (15:29):  Mm. I love that you even mentioned sustainability cause that that’s my philosophy in this business model. It’s like, it’s not about intensity. Anybody can go out there and crush it for a short period of time, but is it sustainable? Is it actually creating results that lasts, but this is about, you know, sustainable and healthy approaches that doesn’t cost you relationships, your body, your mental health, your emotional health. And it’s so important. And I know for me, when I learned, when I started tracking, it was actually really empowering. I’m like, oh, this is how I get about three days before she arrives. Like I noticed like extreme levels of fatigue. I need to like sleep a lot. I’m like, oh, good night. Like yesterday I just, I woke up at, I had eight hours of sleep the night before and I woke up and I was like, I am still really tired. And I took a 90 minute nap. And I was like, okay, I guess I needed that. But also because I was tracking, I was aware of what was happening to my body. And I was able to give myself guilt free rest to honor my body. And I also know that after, you know, my periods here I’m insanely productive. Like the things I can get done is twice as much as normal. So talk a little bit about how your cycle definitely create like affects levels of productivity throughout the cycle.

Maisie Hill (16:53):  Okay. Let’s do a quick tour of the menstrual cycle.

Kristen Boss (16:56):  Do it. Yes.

Maisie Hill (16:58):  So what happens is at the start of each period, your hormone levels are very low. And the, that phase that you spoke about those few days before your period is June. That’s what I call like the hormonal drop-off zone, where you have those lowering levels of estrogen and progesterone. And that’s the same for like the beginning of your periods. So that’s the time when people do feel like commonly more tired maybe a bit more emotionally vulnerable. And that can be a time when, you know, tears are more prominent and you just might just want to be hanging out and having time on your own. But then what happens from like day three of your cycle? So day one is the first day of your period. And then around day three, that’s when estrogen starts to come up.

Maisie Hill (17:49):  So like you were talking about just like feeling that productivity increase because Eastern is great for so many reasons. And one of the reasons is it helps our brains to work and it helps us to think straight. It helps us to communicate clearly and effectively and confidently. So what we have is Eastern gradually increasing up until like, just before of relation, when it reaches its peak. And that, by the way is the perfect time. If you have a presentation to give, if you have an interview, if you have a first date or, or a date with your partner of 10 years, it doesn’t matter. Like that’s when we are most we’ll you for most people, I should say, because everyone has their own experience of the cycle, but that’s often when we’re most social, most extroverted. And I say that as an introvert, but that’s, you know, when we really think about what our hormones are trying to do, like that’s when we’re in the first whole window of our cycle, when conception is possible. So our hormones are driving that behavior. So, you know, basically our hormones want us out there finding a mate, having sex and procreating. So estrogen makes us chatty and flirty and estrogen even makes us walk longer distances. So if any of your listeners are like, well, I kind of feel productive in the run-up to ovulation, but I don’t want to sit at my desk. Right. That’s why, because Eastern is like, you should walk a longer distance to find someone who’s genetically dissimilar from you and breed with them rather than your neighbor.

Kristen Boss (19:37):  Oh my gosh, that’s so fascinating. I love it.

Maisie Hill (19:41):  And it’s so helpful to know this because suddenly instead of you, like maybe judging yourself, like, oh, why can’t I sit down and just get my work done. This is meant to be the productive part of my cycle. Like we can just drop that judgment. It’d be like, oh yeah, my hormones want me to go out and find someone. And like that for me is the beauty of menstrual cycle awareness. And all of my work really is because it just reduces the judgment, reduces the inner criticism and the shame spiral that results from all of this. So basically as we’re going through that first half of the cycle up top violation got like often more energy, more confidence. And then we have testosterone kicking in around the same time, Eastern peaks. And it’s this powerful combination and testosterone makes us take risks, right? That’s the one we’re like, oh, check out that bad boy over there. Let me go hang out with him.

Kristen Boss (20:39):  That snack. Probably not a good choice but it sounds fun!

Maisie Hill (20:44):  And there’s good research around this as well. And like, this is what happens. So what that looks like in business is maybe a willing, more willing to take a risk at that point in the cycle. Maybe you’re willing to do something that’s like a bit of a stretch out of your comfort zone. And that’s what I really encourage my clients to go with. Right. But we go with that when we’re feeling most capable and able to do things like this, knowing that in a short period of time, our hormones are going to plumb it again after ovulation, and we’re going to be left questioning why on earth did I commit to doing that?

Kristen Boss (21:24):  So true.

Maisie Hill (21:27):  But again, when we know that that’s what’s happening, we’re not left in a position going, oh, why can’t I just be like, I was a few days ago? Like what happened to that girl? You know, we can have that awareness. And the other thing to watch out for is like a hot tip for your listeners is around ovulation. We’re really good at saying yes to everyone and everything because we feel so capable. We’re like wonder woman at that point in the cycle, like yeah, sure. I’ll help you with that project. Oh yes. Sign me up for that. Yes. I can help with that bake sale because I’m on top of the world. Right? And then we go into the second half of the cycle where suddenly we have a different hormonal landscape. We have different hormones running the show. We’re often more internal. Like we kind of retreat inside ourselves a bit.

Maisie Hill (22:15):  We’re less interested in the external world, more interested in our internal world. This is a great part. The second half of the cycle for like deep focus on work and editing and reviewing making decisions. And it can be a really powerful time, but there might be conditions to that. Like for me, I have about three days. I know around like days 19 to 21 where I can get so much work done. Like I can write a chapter of a book, no problem, but no one better knock on my door to ask me about anything. I’m like, there is deep focus available to me and I want to make the most out of that. So how do I set up childcare arrangements, other stuff. So that, that, so that I can capitalize on that time.

Kristen Boss (23:04):  This is genius. My people are like, okay, this period power thing, this sounds freaking amazing because so many this and this all came up and the reason why I wanted you on other than like how much value you offer is this came up in my mastermind with all of the really high-performing six figure earner women that are running teams of three to 5,000 people. And, you know, a few of them were like, I don’t track. I didn’t realize that this is how my body worked. What’s a luteal phase. So what’s this phase. And, and I was like, oh, you all need Maisie. But then I realized, wait, my audience just need this, this conversation in general and what most people don’t know. So we have our, you know, 28 day cycles, depending on the person sums are shorter, longer. And men, their hormonal cycles are 24 hour cycles. It resets that quickly. So it allows for this hustle 24 7 narrative. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Maisie Hill (24:01):  Yeah. So, I mean, we, it’s interesting because for me, like when we talk about the cycle and things changing in the way that I have people offering like quite resistant to that, right. To the idea of it, of all sexism. Well, because it’s the menstrual cycle and it’s the female body. And you know, we’re talking about blood and hormones and for a lot of people, like, they just don’t want to hear about that. You know? Yeah. It’s been, this has been an issue for a long time, but when you compare it to the 24 hour cycles, suddenly people, particularly men are like, oh right, got it. Because we accept it that some people wake up in the morning a bit bleary-eyed and it takes them a while to wake up. Right. Which is like the start of the menstrual cycle when you have your period. But then when you get up and you’re moving and maybe you’ve had your cup of coffee or whatever, you have caffeine drink of choice.

Kristen Boss (24:59):  I was waiting for you to say tea. I was like say tea!

Maisie Hill (25:05):  So, you know, once you have that, maybe you’ve left the house, you started getting your energy going. And then like, you hit maybe a level of productivity in your morning, but then like it’s after lunch, it’s the afternoon. So this is like after ovulation and your energy dips a bit. And you know, you kind of, maybe you were a bit social lunchtime, but now you just want to kind of chill out on your own a bit. And then towards the end of the day, which is like the end of the cycle, that can be a need to like finish things up. You know, you want to just fire off those few emails tidy your desk up, make that phone call so that then you can just go home. Well, I hope everyone does this go home and leave their work behind if you’re not doing that.

Kristen Boss (25:46):  What’s that, Maisie?

Maisie Hill (25:50):  It’s a whole other episode. So, and the menstrual cycle is just like that. And it’s really interesting because, you know, I even have clients who are, who have told me they will leave mess around their house. So that towards the end of their cycle, they have something to tidy up. I mean, I don’t know whose house this is. I’m like come to mine and tidy vine, but there is often this need to like kind of Potter what we say Potter in the UK. Just kind of like, oh, let me just sort this drawer out. Like, let me just do this, rearrange my kitchen cupboards. And they’re kind of this need to edit and sort things out that shows up. And it’s just like the end of the day for a lot of people. And then we get tired and we want to go to sleep and we want to rest right in the evening, menstrual cycles, the exact same thing, just spread out over a longer period of time.

Maisie Hill (26:41):  But suddenly because it’s hormones, it’s like, oh, no unacceptable that we have these changes. So that’s what I think about with that. And I would also say that men, you know, people who aren’t experiencing a menstrual cycle, the stuff that’s not available to them, like they can’t access it. And I was actually talking to one of my private clients today about this because, you know, she’s accustomed to thought work. My, and self-coaching and things like, I know you do with your clients as well. And you know, there’s parts of her cycle where she’s just like hitting her goals, like full of energy and like it’s, and it’s all good. But then like, there’s these points in the cycle where she questions, things and doubts come up and insecurities come up. And I was saying to her, this is great because this stuff is available to you at these parts of the cycle.

Maisie Hill (27:39):  And it’s there all the time. But just the whole main shifts allow you to tap into that and to show you where there is stuff that can still be worked on here. And for me, this is really important, particularly when we’re talking about hustle and rest, because our cycles don’t get me wrong. If you have heavy periods and issues with your cycle, it definitely can zap your energy and cause issues as well. But it also allows us to really recognize when we need to rest more. And I think, you know, particularly for your audience, this is really important. Cause the, the menstrual cycle is considered actually by the American college of obstetricians and gynecologists as a fifth vital sign. So after, after heart rate and respiration and whatever else they have is that the four, but the fifth one is the menstrual cycle. That’s what they say it should be because it shows, it gives us so much information.

Maisie Hill (28:43):  And I think when you’re paying attention, when you’re tracking your cycle, if you’re suddenly realizing, oh yeah, I’m actually quite tired after my period finishes or man, these hormonal drop-offs are really impacting me or, oh, I’m really stressed out in the second half of my cycle. These are warning signs. And if we don’t pay attention to them, what I see note see happening is it just spreads out and then suddenly that level of fatigue or that level of stress is that all cycle long. So we don’t want it to get to that point. And there’s so much that can be done. Like literally there is, I don’t know, thousands and thousands of tips in my book but, these are warning signs. Like we need to be paying attention to it, but you know, it all starts with tracking your cycle, getting to know your experience of your cycle, which can change like over the reproductive years, you know, after having kids just as we age and you know, it can change in beneficial ways and it can change in challenging ways as well.

Maisie Hill (29:47):  But the really, I would just recommend to everyone at tracking your cycle in very simple ways, like I have a free cycle tracking thing on my website that your listeners are more than welcome to grab. It. Doesn’t have to take a lot, but like, you know, spending a minute a day, just writing down your energy, your mood, things that felt easy to use things that felt challenging. Like after a few cycles, you start to see the patterns there and it becomes very predictable. And then that puts you in a really beautiful position because you can actually start to change your schedule according to what’s going on with your cycle where possible, like, you know, and then you can use thought work for the stuff that you can’t. Self coaching. Yeah. But it’s just, it’s just such a fabulous tool to work with. And we’ve got it. And you know, men don’t and I feel sorry for them.

Kristen Boss (30:43):  I love that so much. I think what is so important for my listeners to hear again, is just like, when they better understand themselves, when they understand their hormonal Lam landscape, I love that term so much. It does allow for a lot of compassion and self-awareness instead of like judging themselves, because this is what happens with a lot of my listeners they’ll start like questioning themselves. They’ll feel down. They might be spiraling and then they’ll make themselves wrong for experiencing that. Like here I am, again, judging myself here. I am failing again, look, this is just more evidence that I can’t get my brain on straight. And they almost kind of, they don’t know it because they aren’t aware of what’s happened in their bodies, but they weaponize that against themselves and make themselves wrong for it. And then they just, like you said, they sit in judgment.

Kristen Boss (31:34):  They shame spiral, all the things that I see them do. But when they become aware of what’s going on, they say, oh, like, like you said, oh, my brain wants me to go walk longer distances. I have more estrogen because I need to find a mate that has a different genetic makeup than mine. Oh this is the time when I doubt and question everything and it I’ve always loved the expression of course, because it gives so much permission. Like, of course this is happening in my brain. Of course my brain is offering me this thought because this is hormonally, how I’m wired to respond. And this is just, this is my primitive brain. This is survival thinking. And we can just have such compassion on that part of ourselves, because then when we’re not judging it, we let it be there without making it a problem and expending all our energy on being like, well, I have to fix this problem because it shouldn’t be here versus of course it’s here and we allow it. We create allowance for our humanness, right?

Maisie Hill (32:35):  Yes. So much. I love that because what often happens is say you’re in one of those hormonal drop-off zones and you just want to have a lie down, but then you spend that whole time lying down, thinking about how you shouldn’t be lying down and how it’s a problem that you’re lying down. And why can’t you just be like, you were an, oh, look at you not being consistent and showing up. And you know, other people don’t have this problem. Do they? Because of course people are other people noticing this or they’re not sharing it. And you know, it’s just like judgment, judgment, judgment, all on top of each other. And then it’s like, what is the point of lying down arresting if your brain isn’t actually going to rest alongside your body?

Kristen Boss (33:18):  It’s like real permission for real rest. Like guilt-free rest. Like I was able to have yesterday morning and I’m like, no, this is what my body needs. I know what’s happening with my hormones. I’m going to gift myself the rest and have zero judgment about it. And it was delightful. Yes.

Maisie Hill (33:34):  And it’s fantastic. Like, you know, like I’ve just been going through a launch in my business this week and you know, that was timed perfectly with the ovulation phase, my cycle, which yes, that was on purpose. But then I know like, okay, so this next week is going to be quite intense with like onboarding all our new members and taking care of them. But I’m like doing that from this very conscientious place where like, okay, I know I’m shifting gears now I’m moving into the second half of my cycle. I know this is a great time for me to capsize on sleep because everyone listening sleep tends to be better around, like if you had a 28, well, basically about a week before your period is due, however long your particular cycle is. So now I’m just like going into this. I, okay. So I’m feeling a little bit tired now because you know, been launching.

Maisie Hill (34:26):  So now I’m like, okay, I want to take care of my new members. I also want to make sure I make the most out of this sleep. And then for sure, I’m going to be taking care of myself and like really switching off towards the end of my cycle. So it’s just like this moving with awareness in your business, but also moving with awareness throughout each cycle. And just knowing where you are, you know, like imagine to go back to the 24 hour cycle, if you like, had no sense of what time of day it was. Right. And you can’t look, you can’t look at clocks and you’re getting no cues from anyone else as to whether it’s lunchtime or I dunno, is it getting close to bedtime? Like where, where am I in all of this? I thought it would be so weird, but that’s literally what most of the female population are doing.

Kristen Boss (35:21):  I did that for years, for years. Like I would like up and I don’t even want to say like how old I was when I finally decided to like know exactly when my period was doing like, oh, like, and now I know it like clockwork. I expect it. Like, we shouldn’t be surprised by your periods. I don’t want to offer should language because that sounds judgy. But like, I was surprised. I’d be like, oh, what’s here. I had no idea. But, but once I knew and had gifted myself that knowledge, like you said, it, it ha it’s like a sense of, like you said, it’s a sense of time that just equips us with like, you know, what to do, making decisions all. Yeah.

Maisie Hill (36:01):  Yeah and that’s the thing, like when you, you know, when you are able to plan things according to your cycle, or, you know, that’s fantastic. I mean, I always like to give the analogy of like, when you track your cycle, it’s like checking the weather forecast in advance. Right. So you’re like, okay, so tomorrow is going to be rainy. So I need a rain coats or first. So, I mean, the idea was like, I’m just going to stay in doors. Right. So

Kristen Boss (36:32):  Or let’s just stay inside.

Maisie Hill (36:34):  And that’s what I mean by like, sometimes we have that level of control over our diary and say, if you have a business meeting that you can rearrange because you know, you you’re going to have pain or, you know, like you just need to take care of yourself on that day. Then yes, you can, you know, change, text your phone and say, I can’t meet you today. Or whatever the case may be. But more often than not, we need to get on with what we have booked in our diaries. And when you know what your weather forecast is, you can wear the rain coat. You can wear the boot, you can, you know, call the taxi. Do you call them taxis over there? I forget, cabs.

Kristen Boss (37:14):  Taxis, but we definitely call diaries calendars or journals or planners. I love it. I’m like I knew exactly what you’re talking about, but my listeners di diary. Dear Diary, I have a crush on a man named John.

Maisie Hill (37:31):  I used to live in New York in my twenties. And my boyfriend takes the piss out of all my Americanisms. Like, he makes fun all the time. Because I say, oh yeah, it’s a few blocks away. And he’s like, there are no blocks where we live. Like, you know what I mean? He just makes fun of all my Americanisms.

Kristen Boss (37:52):  Wait there’s no blocks in the UK? Like you don’t call them blocks?

Maisie Hill (37:53):  Not really. I mean, streets, people say it’s a few streets away. Anyway.

Kristen Boss (37:58):  Oh that’s funny!

Maisie Hill (38:01):  But when, you know, basically your personal weather costs because you’ve been tracking your cycle and you know what to expect, then you can make plans that are going to support you in that phase. So like, yeah, maybe you still have an important meeting with your team, but you know, going into that meeting, you need to be well fed. And you know, after that meeting, that may be the best thing for you on that day is to go home and rest and not go out and have a big dinner and drinking. You know what I mean? So, but like that we, other times in your cycle, we’re like, hell yeah, I’m up for going out and having a drink and celebrating with everyone,

Kristen Boss (38:40):  And we’re taking taxis.

Maisie Hill (38:42):  Yeah. So it’s not about like having this, you know, calm life where, you know, we’re not embracing any of the fun and things, but there are just certain points in the cycle where you that’s easier and there’s points in the cycle where rest is easier. So, you know, it’s about embracing all of these aspects of our lives in a way that is inline and supportive of our cycle and our health.

Kristen Boss (39:09):  That’s so good. I just kind of final thought before we wrap up, I think what kind of keeps some of my listeners from allowing rest tracking their cycle is I can almost picture them thinking. Yeah. But I have bills to pay. I can’t just decide to be under a blanket when I’m on my period. I can’t not work like, and it’s almost like being in scarcity makes them afraid to take rest. Like they’re, they’re deeply fearful of like, but if I’m not working, I’m, I’m losing, I’m missing out. Like scarcity really can take over this narrative, which is why I think a lot of women don’t rest because they have such scarcity around rest will cost me. Instead of realizing rest actually increases our productivity. It makes it better. But I can just see my audience kind of grappling with that a bit.

Maisie Hill (40:02):  Yeah and by my response to that is how do you feel when you haven’t slept? Like let’s take away the cycle again and let’s move it back to the 24 hour cycle. I’m just going to go like, oh no, you can’t have that much sleep. You have to go on three hours sleep. And then you have to be up and out of them. Like we would never expect that of each other. And it’s just, it’s the same with the cycle. And really like, you know, so much actually goes on when we sleep, our brains are very active. We switched to a different, it’s called a default network. We switched them to a different kind of mode of how brains working and there’s so much activity going on. And it’s the same with the cycle. Like when we rest, the analogy I like to use is like, when seeds have been planted on the ground. Right. And we can’t see anything happening above the ground yet, but so much is going on. And it’s like, all that energy is gathering if we allow it to.

Kristen Boss (41:04):  Okay. Have you heard the concept fertile void? It’s kinda like that. You told me about that.

Maisie Hill (41:09):  Yeah because one of my, one of my teachers kind of came up with like speaking about this. And then I think, I can’t remember who it was that you told me used it, but yes. Yeah.

Kristen Boss (41:22):  Kate Northrupp.

Maisie Hill (41:22):  So it is, you know, when we allow that rest, it’s like, it’s, what’s gonna create the shoots that happen. Cause I talk about the phases of the cycle to the seasons. So when you have your period, it’s short in a winter, in the run-up to ovulation, spring. Ovulation is summer. Autumn is the pre-menstrual time. I, and it’s just the same as like the calendar seasons of the year. We like this, all this dormant activity happening in nature in winter. And then in spring, literally shoots just appear overnight, blooms appear suddenly, but that comes from this period of rest. And it is exactly the same with us.

Kristen Boss (42:07):  Yeah. I love that. You circled back to that analogy because it’s no different in our business. We have seasons in our business and how we nurture our audiences. And it starts with like planting a seed and trusting and not seeing anything for so long. And like you said, it’s that stored energy and we don’t neglect it. We continue to water and care and all those things trusting. Like I know this is this it’s going to shoot up. It’s going to, you know, it’s going to come out of the ground and then I get to harvest it. And then there’s the necessary season of this fertile void where actually you don’t plant anything. You let the soil enrichen and its nutrients. And this is actually what happened with our crops. Here in the, in America is like, we weren’t allowing like crops to rest and they were planting seeds too soon. And what happened was because the soil was had less nutritional and mineral value, the fruit actually B had less value. It is no different in our work and in our productivity, you don’t allow for that rest. You don’t allow for that fertile void for everything to become rich again. Yeah, sure. You can force producing, but the fruit won’t be nearly as good, right?

Maisie Hill (43:22):  No, that’s the thing. The end result won’t be as good. And the process to get there will suck.

Kristen Boss (43:28):  Preach it. This is, I tell people it’s hustle. I’m like, yeah, you can get the results, but at what cost to you at what cost to the long game, because almost always like I find typically at the two year mark is when people are coming to me and saying I’ve complete total burn. I’ve hit total burnout. I hate my business. Hate my life. My body is putting on so much weight. I have, you know, my relationships are hurting them. Like this is the cost. This is the cost. When we don’t allow for seasons, we don’t allow for rest. And we don’t shift out of this hustling 24 7 narrative that we’ve been conditioned to buy into. Like, this is what it takes for success. If you want to play in the big leagues, this is how you have to play. And thankfully you and I both have the same coach who is so against that. She’s not a hustley coach and she teaches us to be calm and honor that. And I’m like, yeah, this is why we pay her the really big dollar.

Maisie Hill (44:25):  Yeah and it’s like, I, you know, I’ve because I’m in a period of slowing down and at the moment, just like it’s a season in my business where, you know, we’re focusing on delivering for the clients, setting things up so that we can grow and scale next year. And you know, I just like, here’s the thing. So we are in, in the Northern hemisphere, we’re in the autumn season of the year currently. And as a former acupuncturist, I would see seasonal change in my clients all the time and literally how their pulses felt when I would like hold their pulse and feel it suddenly over like the, the equinoxes you would notice across the board everyone’s pulse changes. So I’m used to seeing people’s energy shift at this time of year. It’s like the energy is, the body just goes more internal, a bit more fatigued, you know, to kind of maybe a bit less social compared to the height of summer.

Maisie Hill (45:23):  Right? And this is the same with the menstrual cycle, by the way that the seasons there. And, but then we judge ourselves for that as well. So just like looking for ways to judge her basically, but what I’m really seeing this year is that because of the impact of the pandemic is like this seasonal shift is more significant than it usually is. Like even more than last year. And so like literally everyone I’m speaking to is going, I feel so tired. I’ve lost all my enthusiasm. I have no motivation. And it’s like, yes, we can use thought work and self-coaching and things to like find our way into feeling inspired and curious and creative and all these wonderful things. But if you’re running on empty, you got rest. And, you know, I just, I’m just seeing that so acutely at the moment. And so, you know, whether we’re talking about the menstrual cycle, the seasons of the year, the season of your business, like it’s important to be considering things on all of these different levels because I’ve been really productive over the last 18 months.

Maisie Hill (46:36):  I wrote my second book, Perimenopause Power. I created, I don’t know, however many podcasts episodes. I like my online business that, you know, the list goes on and now I’m like, yeah, I’ve been really productive for a year and a half. I think it’s time for me to be a bit less productive and to do work in other ways. And like, I think that freaks most people out because of that high nerve of value on productivity and the link between productivity and self worth. And it’s suddenly like, well, if you take my productivity away, then who am I? Am I valuable as a human in this world? And what will I think of myself? What will other people think? So it’s like, oh, it’s just easier for me to keep busy because then I don’t actually have to look at these thoughts and I don’t have to sit with myself and face these things. So it can, I will say rest can be very confronting, but that’s a reason to rest.

Kristen Boss (47:38):  Oh, Maisie. That was so good. Like I talk about this in depth, in my book, like removing worth from productivity and realizing for years I was hiding in my productivity because I was so afraid to see who I was when I was resting. So afraid to feel the feelings, hear the thoughts, address the stories. And it was just so easy to run into my work. And so yeah, rests can feel extremely confrontational and really uncomfortable. It was for me at first, but now I like delight in it. I feel so good with it. And I, I feel like I’m kind of the same place as you like how you got two books done just seriously. You are amazing, but you still, when I celebrate. I’m like the book it’s done, I birthed the baby. It’s like the hardest thing I’ve ever done, like launching the program, my mastermind, like my company’s just been growing so much.

Kristen Boss (48:28):  I’m going to be entering into the exact same thing. Like I was telling Stacy, we’re going to be so proud of me next year. It’s like, I, it’s not, I’m looking at like aggressively growing the company. It’s, I’m going to be going very internal, really focusing on my programs, really delivering and just entering a different kind of work and a restful work. I’ll still be, you know, front facing, but the work is going to be less on like, what am I producing and putting out on the world and more so like, how can I make what is already out in the world just better and serve at the highest level, the highest capacity and most business owners are so afraid. Like if they’re not putting more out in the world, they think this is going to hurt my bottom line rather than realizing, wait, if I’m, if I serve really well with what I already have, that inevitably does grow the bottom line down the road, right. And so same boat. Right.

Maisie Hill (49:23):  Yeah. And to bring it all the way back round to kind of where we first started this conversation. The other reason that people can struggle with resting is like, because you’ve been, if you’ve been used to existing in the fight or flight part of your nervous system, then you will have kind of deepened those grooves like that, those, the nervous system wiring. And so that’s another reason it can be challenging to go to resting and to slowing down because your body’s just used to being in that survival mode. But again, it’s just another reason why it’s important to, to shift into that mode now, because the longer you leave it, then like the more well-trodden that particular path in your nervous system is going to be. And that doesn’t mean that you can’t pull back from that. You know, if you’ve been living this way for 30 years, you can absolutely still do that. Don’t let it stop you. But the sooner you learn this for yourself and the sooner your nervous system knows this, the more beneficial it’s going to be.

Kristen Boss (50:25):  I love that. And it was same for me. And I tell people like becoming anti hustle, isn’t an overnight decision. It’s like undoing a lifetime of conditioned learning that has happened in your body and in your brain and then your nervous system. So it takes a while to rewire that part of you and to not have your brain freaking out when you’re resting thinking we’re going to die. If we are not out there hunting and gathering like this is certain death, because the nervous system, especially when you’re operating in scarcity does communicate that. It’s why we’re out in fight or flight. And we are very primal mama bear. My, my, my babies have to eat. I have to take care. You know, mama lioness is going to go out and hunt. So it’s like, it does take a while to unlearn that. And I just think that was so good that you brought it all the way around. And I think my listeners are probably just taking so many notes. I hope that they’re going to listen to this over and over. I would love for my people to connect with you and just learn more from just your knowledge and your expertise in this area. You already, you have the book Period Power, Peri-menopause Power that they can get Amazon, their local bookstore or whatever. You also have your podcast. How else can they connect with you? Tell them your podcast name.

Maisie Hill (51:38):  So my podcast is the Period Power podcast. And also, you know, if your listeners like listening, both of my books are available on audible as well. And you get to hear my dulcet tones, reading the books

Kristen Boss (51:52):  I’m in!

Maisie Hill (51:53):  But the Period Power podcast is really the best place. And I, you know, like episode one, I do a great walkthrough of the whole of the cycle. But all of the things that I know you touch on through your podcast, probably like similar, but through the lens of the cycle, through the lens of the nervous system. So I’m sure they’re all going to love that. I’m _MaisieHill_ on Instagram, man. I regret the day I lost Maisie hill as my Instagram handle. I changed it to something else. And I went back and someone else had taken it. I was like ugh!

Kristen Boss (52:28):  Oh man, I think I had Kristen Boss. And then someone else took it. I’m like, I guess I’ll be The Kristen Boss. And I had all kinds of drama about it. I’m like, it’s fine. I’ll be The Kristen Boss.

Maisie Hill (52:37):  It is fine. It’s very on brand for you. I think you can pull it off. Not, not everyone can. And then my website is and you can get a great cycle tracking PDF there where I like break down just the basics of the cycle enough to get you going with it. And then you get all my help for emails as well.

Kristen Boss (52:59):  So good. We’re going to link all of that in the show notes. Maisie, thanks again for being here with me today, this was just such a fun conversation.

Maisie Hill (53:06):  It really was. Thank you so much for having me.

Kristen Boss (53:10):  All right. We’ll catch you guys on the next episode next week. Same time, same place.

Kristen Boss (53:20):  That wraps up today’s episode. Hey, if you loved today’s show, I would love for you to take a minute and give a rating with a review. If you desire to elevate the social selling industry, that means we need more people listening to this message so that they can know it can be done at different way. And if you’re ready to join me, it’s time for you to step into the Social Selling Academy, where I give you all the tools, training, and support to help you realize your goals. In the academy, you get weekly live coaching so that you are never lost or stuck in confusion. Whether you are new in the business or been in the industry for a while this is the premier coaching program for the modern network marketer. Go to to learn more.

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