Are you managing your team or are you leading your team? One will keep your business stagnant and you’ll be scrambling to keep up with your daily business and team’s needs. The other will allow you to trust yourself, your systems, and your people.
Many people think: when I make XYZ or when I hit my next rank up, I’ll become a leader in my business. But leadership doesn’t just magically come with a rank. You have to intentionally develop those skills and teach them to your team. Leaders aren’t born, leaders are made. The good news is that you can learn the skills to become a great leader!
Here are a few key takeaways:
- The main differences between being an upline and a leader
- Why many people suffer from imposter syndrome after a rank up
- The reason a team hides from a manager and seeks out a leader
- Why taking radical responsibility over your results is a key trait in a leader
- Being a leader isn’t about rank or status-it’s an identity
- How systems help you in your ability to lead your team
Stepping into the leadership role is one of the more challenging parts of growing your business. But if you master this skill, you will have more peace, more growth, and yes: more strong leaders on your team.
Interested in Kristen’s exclusive mastermind for six-figure earners in the network marketing industry? Get all the details and join the waitlist here.
Thanks for listening! Do you have a question about network marketing? Kristen can help! Drop your question here, and she just might answer it live on the podcast: https://kristenboss.com/question
If you’re ready to learn the simple process of running your social selling business online, you have to check out Kristen’s live group coaching program! The Social Selling Academy: www.thesocialsellingacademy.com
Transcript for Episode #87 Upline or Leader:
Kristen Boss (00:05): Welcome to Purposeful Social Selling with Kristen Boss. I’m your host, Kristen Boss. I’m a mindset and business coach with more than 15 years experience in both the product and service based industries. I believe that social selling is the best business model for people wanting to make an impact while they make serious income. This is the podcast for the social seller, who is tired of feeling inauthentic in their business and desires to find a more purposeful and profitable way of growing their business in today’s social media landscape. In this podcast, you will learn what it takes to grow a sustainable business through impactful and social marketing. It’s time to ditch the hustle and lead from the heart. Let me show you the new way.
Kristen Boss (00:48): Hey bosses. Welcome to another episode of the podcast. Happy Monday to you. If you don’t already know the waitlist for the Six and Seven Figure Earner Mastermind is now open. You can head to my website www.kristenboss.com/mastermind and you can get all the details there. You’re going to want to be on the waitlist. If you want to have information for where the event’s going to be, details about the event, we are going to be at the four seasons in Chicago for our live two day event. It is my mastermind members. It is their most favorite event. They look forward to it every six months. It’s when you get to have an amazing five star experience, two intense live days with me, where I am coaching and teaching and training. I have a lot packed in for three days. I pretty much tell ’em, I’m going to teach you everything in three days, and then we’re going to take six months to implement what I teach you at the live event.
Kristen Boss (01:47): And it is value packed. I always tell my members and the applicants that you are going to get the entirety of your investment, the value of your full investment in the three days alone. You’re not going to want to miss it. So if you want to be a part of the application process, if you want to apply applications open January 31st, we have a pretty intense application process. So you’re going to need to be ready. And then we will have we will send out acceptance letters and let you know when you are accepted the week of February 7th, and we will have final selections of members, and all payments are due by February 11th. So you need to be ready to rock and roll. We have some fun things planned for the application process. I always have people do a two to three-minute video that they submit with their application of why they deserve a spot in the mastermind.
Kristen Boss (02:42): After the recent three-day event, we had, we had a lot of people kind of sending us messages, asking, you know, what is available for six and seven-figure earners. So it is the most intensive high-level mastermind that is available in this industry and the spots are limited. So you’re going to want to make sure that you are ready to apply when applications open. So what I’ve been kind of doing over the last, you know, couple episodes and for the entirety of the month, I’m going to be talking about high-level concepts that I teach inside the six and seven-figure mastermind. And just, and even if you’re not a six or seven-figure earner, you can still glean a lot of value from this episode and apply it to your current season of leadership. But I’m going to kind of be talking about concepts that are specific to six and seven-figure earners, and we’re just going to have a good old time.
Kristen Boss (03:33): And also you’re going to be hearing more from other interviews with my mastermind members who are currently in this round, we have just a couple of months left and they are seeing extraordinary changes in their business and in their leadership and in their teams. It’s been really fun to see. So this episode is about the concept of being more than an upline. It’s being an upline versus a leader or a manager versus a leader. I think a lot of times, you know, uplines can very easily step into management. And I see very few people who know how to step into leadership. And I tell my students this all the time, the hardest part of this industry is the leadership development, learning to step into leadership. And there might be some missteps you’ve been doing in your leadership journey. And I recently coached someone in the academy who asked me, you know, I’m, I’m on the cusp of six figures.
Kristen Boss (04:33): Why am I not there yet? And when I asked her a few key questions, it was very clear that it was because she hadn’t yet stepped into being a leader. She knew how to be an upline. She knew how to be, you know, a friend. She knew how to kind of talk to people. She was managing her business just fine. Her personal activity was great, but the key component was leadership. So an upline that is not something you earn. That is just what you are. You know, you sponsor people under you and you know, it’s associated by rank. And even your rank is associated by pay. But leadership is not about how much you make, what rank you are with your company, and who you are above leader. Being a leader is posture. It’s not a rank, it’s not a status. And we make it about rank and status.
Kristen Boss (05:27): We’re not serving people and we become, we are serving ourselves. So as a leader, you can step into that right now. I think a lot of people kind of get caught in their own mind thinking, you know, when I am making this income, then I can start being a leader. Then I can call myself a leader. Then I can, you know, talk about this business more boldly and more confidently and talk about a team and leadership. And because of that, I see never people never really fully stepping into it, or when they finally do get to that rank or that level of pay, they feel a lot of imposter syndrome because they’ve been telling themselves all the way up until that point. I’m not a leader. And then overnight, when they rank advance they’re they suddenly expect themselves to believe about themselves. That I’m a leader and that, and it doesn’t sit well.
Kristen Boss (06:16): And that’s when they have imposter syndrome and they start thinking I’m not worthy, or I don’t know how to lead, or I don’t know what I’m doing. And I really believe that if you can develop your leadership with the other concepts I teach, the sky is truly the limit with this business model. But I’m going to also say that your future residual earnings, because this business model, the business model of network marketing, it is one of the business models that offers future passive income. It is one of the most lucrative parts about this business model. And it is not for people who, you know, rush to the end and, you know, burn themselves into the grand because they’re exhausted and burnt out. It is not for those who, you know, again, exhaust themselves. Future passive income is for people who play the long game. And for the people who understand leadership, you cannot have future passive income unless you develop solid leaders.
Kristen Boss (07:17): So want to talk to you about how to discern whether you are being an upline or you are being a leader, and it doesn’t matter how much you’re making for you to draw lessons from this. I will say though, the larger your organization, the more painful the difference is between being an upline in a leader. Because if you have a large organization and you have 2000 people, and you’re being a manager, you’re going to experience far more burnout, exhaustion, frustration, and resentment than somebody who’s operating as a manager with five team members. And I think that’s what happens is I think people start with small teams, you know, maybe start with five or 10. And because it’s, you know, easy to manage five or 10 people, they tend to keep the managerial mindset or, you know, how they help their team. They continue to keep those same exact habits, what they did with 10 people.
Kristen Boss (08:13): And they try to apply the same habits to when they have a team of a hundred or a team of a thousand. But you have to learn to leverage your time and your energy differently. As your organization grows, you cannot run your team the same way that you did when you had a team of 10 than when you have a team of a thousand. So it’s so important. You understand how to step out of management and, and into leadership. So if you’re in management, this is how you’ll know you’re in management. What I see managers do is they get very caught up in telling people what to do. They co they feel like a broken record. They’re just like, do your income-producing activity, come to the team, call, you know, send messages, connect, make a post on social media, follow up with your customers. I mean, you guys know this it’s the same over and over and over again.
Kristen Boss (09:06): And they keep giving their team the, what here’s, what you need to do. And they keep saying it. And then when the team doesn’t take action, they just keep telling them the same thing over and over again, rather than getting curious as to, well, why are they not taking action? They know what to do. Why are they not taking the steps? And they might resort to saying things like, well, you just need a time block. You just need to wake up earlier. You just need to, and I really want to encourage you to remove just out of your language. You just, you just cause it, it can sound a little condescending. It’s almost like we’re stating the obvious. It’s like, well, hello, you just do this, right? But that’s not leadership. Leadership is letting someone be seen, letting them feel validated and it to them from a place of love and compassion.
Kristen Boss (09:57): But when you’re saying you just have to do this, it’s almost like our exasperation comes through in the language that we choose. And I, I know that. I mean, just think about even in your relationships, imagine if someone came to you and said, you just gotta do this. It almost sounds like they’re impatient with you. Right? So I find management is constantly telling people what to do. Whereas leaders, they show others what to do and they teach them how to do it. Not just the mechanics, but they give them the how behind it. And they teach the why here’s, you know, you need to make a post. Here’s why making a post is important. Here’s why it’s important to stay consistent. And here’s how you can stay consistent. Right. Instead of like, just do it, just wake up early. Right? And a lot of times I think exasperation and fatigue happens when you’re trying to manage hundreds of people.
Kristen Boss (10:57): And you feel like you’re just saying the same thing over and over again. So of course, exhaustion is going to come through in your language. Right? Of course, you’re tired. If you’re trying to control 150 or a thousand people or 2000 people, right? An up liner, a manager expects people to just listen. The first time I told, why haven’t you done it? Right? It’s just, I’ve told you where the systems are. I’ve pointed you to the team page. I’ve pointed you to this before. Instead of realizing that some people like understanding that people need to be told more than once they need to be reminded. But also if they keep coming to you again, this tells me you don’t have a strong, sustainable system that you have taught your team to use a manager and upline. They go looking for leaders. Let me give you an example.
Kristen Boss (11:51): Looking for leaders is thinking is when they’re thinking my team doesn’t want it. Nobody’s showing up. Nobody wants it like I do. And they go on a recruitment blitz looking for, I just gotta find the rock star. I just gotta find somebody who’s like me. And here’s the thing leaders aren’t born leaders are made. So if you keep, if you keep recruiting, hoping to find like this magical person who, you know, requires very little from you and they do everything and they just come in and they crush it. First of all, the likelihood of that is next to none. But what it’s doing is it’s avoiding the necessary skill of developing people, of teaching people, how to operate that way of teaching them, how to show up for themselves and their business. I kind of think of network marketing as everyone comes in as entry level, if it’s your first company, your first time doing social selling, everyone starts as a beginner.
Kristen Boss (12:48): And in this business model, you have an opportunity to start as someone who is entry-level and acquire and grow your skills to become somebody who is the top of a massive organization. You can literally go from entry level to CEO, but you don’t just get there overnight. You have to develop and acquire the skills to become that person and your job as an upline. I want you to think of, if this wasn’t like network marketing, I’m going to kind of bring you into a different analogy just to kind of help wrap your brain around this. So imagine you run a coffee shop. Imagine, you know, I used to be a barista at Starbucks when I was in college. So I imagine when I first started as a barista, they didn’t even like, let me make coffee. At first, I had to like figure out the cash register and where the button was and how to, you know, put pastry bags and just put drip coffee and learn how to properly mark cups.
Kristen Boss (13:43): I had to understand the mechanics of being a beginner. And then once I had mastered that, and by the way, every step I had someone showing me the ropes. And so the next step, then it was learning to make the drinks. And I was painfully slow at first. You know, what’s really funny is it’s been, I don’t know. I don’t know how, how old am I? <Laugh> it’s been a really long time. It’s been more than 20 years. And so I, but I could still tell you how to make all the drinks like it, the information has not left my mind, but I had to learn, okay, this is how many pumps of vanilla go in a caramel macchiato. This is how many gona vanilla latte this is. So I had to learn all the drinks and I had to learn, you know, how to multitask, steaming milk, and how to do these things.
Kristen Boss (14:24): And eventually, like I kept acquiring the skills and then I got really good at, you know, running the bar. And then I got great at understanding like, okay, how can we keep the cafeteria running? And how can we manage the customers and flow? And eventually, you know, working as a shift lead and being able to tell people, okay, it’s your time and all these things. So it’s no different someone coming to the organization and they have to learn the basic mechanics. They have to learn how to make a post. How, what is a good post? And what’s a not great post. How do they learn to be consistent? How can you teach ’em to clock in? And if you want somebody to be the future manager of, of a store of a location, which is like a great picture of that is like them running their own successful team, like a lay in your organization.
Kristen Boss (15:12): If you want to take somebody from employee, from entry level employee, all the way up to store manager, then you’re going to have to develop them instead of going out and just looking for somebody who’s never worked at Starbucks has no idea of the mechanics and saying, I want to find a store manager that could just step in and do it instead of like, wait, hold on. They’re still going to have to acquire skills. So this what I, and that’s kind of a long picture to kind of really help you see that when you’re thinking nobody wants this and you just go out to find somebody new, somebody fresh. Now, listen, you always need to be recruiting. You always need to be developing leaders. That’s what creates a sustainable business model. But you know, you can’t just go out there and be like, fine. I’ll find somebody who wants it.
Kristen Boss (15:59): What you’re doing is you’re abandoning. You’re abandoning the development opportunity for you to pour into that person and help develop their skills instead of leaving them in the dust. So an upline or manager goes looking for leaders, whereas a leader understands they need to develop leaders. They need to coach leaders. I find a lot of times when you’re more of an upline or in that managerial Mo mode, you avoid the hard conversations. You don’t ask the hard questions. You kind of just want to make everybody comfy and cozy. And you Don ask, Hey, you told me this was important to you. What happened? Like, tell me a little bit about your goal. Tell me about your activity. That’s leading in love, but you know, if you do it from exhaustion, like, Hey, why didn’t you do this? We talked about this. You’re likely in kind of a managerial frustrated mode, right?
Kristen Boss (16:50): Another thing a manager does is they micromanage edge their team because they’re afraid to let people fail, like not handing leadership opportunities to people on their team, like letting them run their first opportunity call and letting them bomb, letting them like suck at it. But you’re what you’re doing is you’re helping them learn. You’re helping you are treating them as I’m. I see, as a leader, I’m going to treat you as a leader. And then they start to embody that. But a lot of times I see people that won’t, they’re afraid to relinquish control over something for fear that their new team member might do it wrong, or they might fail and people have to be able to do it wrong in order to get it right. Another part of, if you’re in management is you spend a lot of your time talking. You talk at your team, you talk at them.
Kristen Boss (17:41): You’re very caught up in your day-to-day activities doing a lot of managerial admin work. Listen, I, I know I say, listen a lot, but this is important. Admin work does not make you money. This is why I teach in my six and seven, seven-figure mastermind. I teach you how to really hone your income-producing activities and how to delegate and outsource the, that keep you busy, but don’t make you money. Even if you’re not in network marketing, it’s important. You understand that as a business owner, understanding the activities that make you money and the activities that just keep you busy uplines who are acting as managers are busy, but they are not productive busy. They’re just spinning their wheel. They’re stressed, they’re tired, but they have nothing to show for their work that day. Whereas somebody who is a leader, they know how to move the needle forward in their business.
Kristen Boss (18:37): They are productive. They have a get-it-done list. They have a, these are the things that got done as opposed to this is a constant never ending todo list. Another sign of being a manager, as you’re exhausted from being the primary resource to your team, you’re constantly in the DMS. You’re constantly answering a million questions. Your team sees you as the primary resource to learning and growing rather than them learning to look to themselves, being self-reliant, being resourceful, and learning to use the tools and the resources that you have provided for them. Also known as your systems, systems are meant to duplicate how you lead people so that the system can lead people without you being physically present. Like right now, as you’re listening to this podcast episode, someone in my academy is watching a prerecorded video. I have done about organic marketing and they are learning.
Kristen Boss (19:40): They are growing, watching something in a system I have created without me having to be physically present to deliver it. That is a system. A system was what creates freedom. It’s how you leverage your time. Okay? Here’s the qualities of a leader. They show others what to do by example. And they teach them what to do rather than just tell. They teach and they show, they understand it takes time to create buy-in and they don’t try and do a quick fix overnight. Like, let’s just try and throw something at this. They understand like it takes time to get people on board with a certain vision and they understand they need to sell people on a vision. They understand they need to develop leaders instead of just going out and finding them. Now, if there’s any confusion here, if you’re thinking, wait, hold on. Does that mean I don’t speak to my best people online?
Kristen Boss (20:38): Does that mean I, you know, I change how I market. No. You still want to market to people who are coachable and willing and want to learn new skills and want to have an online business. You still want that language, but you’re no longer like on this hunt for a unicorn. When you could be developing people who are already willing, capable, and able, who have already said up with you. So leaders understand they need to develop leaders, create leaders, not just followers, leaders don’t want fans. They want to create leaders. They understand that people need to fail in order to learn. So they’re willing to surrender control to team members so that team members can learn new skills. Instead of avoiding the hard conversation, they lean into the hard conversation, even when they’re uncomfortable, even when they’re afraid that their team member might think, you know that they’re being selfish or you know, that they’re in it for them. They’re willing for the team member to have thoughts about how they lead. They lead no matter what. They ask the hard questions.
Kristen Boss (21:53): Instead of talking, they do a lot of listening. They listen, they look for problems that they can solve. A leader also takes full responsibility for all results on the team, being an upline or a manager. It’s everybody else’s fault. It’s blaming, shaming, pointing it’s, you know, pointing at corporate. It’s, you know, it’s cause corporate keeps changing the plan or it’s because, you know, my crossline is doing different something different or my upline’s not available for me. Or, you know, this member on my team is toxic. There’s always a reason or an excuse as to why they don’t have results instead of looking at themselves. Whereas a leader looks only at themselves first, before they look at any other facet of their organization. They look at themselves and that is hard. It’s very hard to look at yourself. No one wants to sit down and look at all the areas where they might be falling short.
Kristen Boss (22:51): But when you experience radical ownership in your, in your business while it’s painful at first, it’s also deeply empowering because then you actually start to believe that you can change your results. Think how empowering that is. If your business isn’t where you want to be, because it’s everybody else’s fault. Then your ability to turn your business around probably feels hopeless to you because it’s contingent upon other people and their choices, things that are completely out of your control. Whereas when you believe, wait, hold on. I believe I create all re all my results and that I have influence and I can make a change and that I can change the results. Now you’re empowered to believe that your work can actually make a difference and you can get results. You want to see, but it starts with radical responsibility. A leader also teaches the team to use the system and the tools, and they have healthy boundaries around their work time.
Kristen Boss (23:53): Leaders are not available 24/7. They’re not. And this is when I see people get really caught up in this. They feel, I see uplines feel like they to be available 24/7 in order for their downlines to feel supported. And that will burn you out, create so much resentment and your family. Won’t like you very much. When they see mom or dad or whoever on their phone, 24/7 answering know messages that the team is having at, you know, 11 o’clock at night, seven in the morning, during dinner time, during family movie night. Family’s not going to be there for it. They’re like this sucks. You signed up for this and that, this is what we get. We don’t like this. And if this is how business is for you, some changes need to happen. If you’re exhausted and burnt out, and you’re thinking, okay, but how do I turn this boat around?
Kristen Boss (24:50): And you’re a six or seven-figure earner, you need to get your butt in the mastermind. That’s just a, it should be a non-negotiable for you. If you want to change your business around then of course you’re going to want to do this. Leaders have boundaries where I see as uplines and managers, they’re just available 24 7 because they don’t have a system in place. Listen, my system is available 24/7. People can log onto their student member portal if at one in the morning if they want and they can look up a whole host of topics and watch my coaching on it, get their questions answered. Watch a training, watch prerecorded teaching material. Listen, while I’m sleeping in my bed, having sweet dreams, someone could be logged into my system having massive results. That is a system that is freedom. That is leadership, but you can’t just build it and they will come.
Kristen Boss (25:42): You have to build it, teach it, and sell it. And in the mastermind, one of the things I teach is, I teach sustainable system framework. We break it down. We make it extremely simple. It’s a powerful framework. And then I teach my members how to do a certain evaluation process, how to apply it, how to implement it, how to refine it, and then how to lead to and coach their teams. Listen, everyone in my mastermind, they learn how to coach their team. Instead of talking at their team, they learn to hold space. They learn to have the hard conversations they learn to lead in love. And what’s so fun to watch is the coach is watching their team respond differently to leadership.
Kristen Boss (26:31): A team can will oftentimes I find a team will hide from management, but they will be drawn into leadership because we desire as humans. We want leadership. We crave leadership. We look up to for, we look for leadership. We want to be led. We don’t want to be managed though. When someone’s managing me, it feels like they have very little belief in my capability and potential. When someone is coaching me and leading me, I feel like they see the best in me. And they’re challenging me to the better version of myself and they’re holding belief for me. And they see my potential. If your team has been hiding from you, it’s likely because you have been managing them and not leading them, ask yourself, how do I feel when I feel like someone’s managing me? When someone doesn’t think I’m doing a good job. When someone thinks I’m not doing it right, or they’re not trusting me to do the job well, or they’re asking me a lot of questions in a way that feels like, and it feels condescending, or they seem frustrated with me. How does that feel for me? You have to be the leader you want. It starts with you.
Kristen Boss (27:49): So if you want to see a change in your organization this year because if you want to hit the next rank or rerank at a rank you’ve lost and you are so tired of spinning your wheels, you need to step into leadership. You need to stand what sustainable systems and sustainable leadership looks like. That is what I teach in the mastermind. We teach sustainable systems and how to step into leadership. You know, there’s a, there’s a portion in the training. I call upline to coach and I told all my mastermind members. I said, listen, I’m going to teach you how to think like a coach and not like an upline anymore. I’m going to teach you how to lead people. I’m going to teach you to ask the right questions. I’m going to teach you to hold space. And with time you are going to have massive. Buy-In you’re going to create a massive secure foundation because is listen, if you don’t have a good foundation of sustainable systems, understanding your leadership, getting out of your day to day activities and truly being productive, learning to leverage your time, learning to scale your activities so that your team can grow with less of your involvement.
Kristen Boss (29:08): Listen. Most people are afraid to reach the next rank in their business because they think it’s going to require more of them. They think it’s going to take more hours, more time, more energy. And when they’re already drained and exhausted, they’re like, I don’t want that. And they burn themselves out instead of waiting, the whole concept of scaling, growing your business, getting greater results with less of you. Think about that greater results with less of you, but you can only scale out and have less of you. If you have a firm foundation of sustainable systems, building up your leaders, having the proper tools and resources, having buy-in, and team culture. Only when you have those things in place. Can you start to scale and remove yourself from your business and create bigger results with less of your time and less of your energy? This is very possible for you, but it might require a season of you cleaning some things up of you getting very clear on what you need to delegate, what you need to automate, and what you need to eliminate, right?
Kristen Boss (30:24): And what you need to, you know, outsource, hire someone for, hire a VA, maybe cleaning up your systems because the system that maybe worked for you when you know, you were making a thousand or 2000 a month, might not be the system that works for you being a leader of 500 to a thousand. Now, listen, it, if you are not a six-figure earner, I would really encourage you to not be playing around with reinventing the wheel, because that is not your highest income-producing activity. Before you are a six-figure earner, it’s important that you continue to develop your people, grow your team, kind of wash, rinse, and repeat. There. There’s some nuances there, but I see a lot of people, they keep reinventing the wheel and they’re busy creating systems instead of busy growing their paycheck. And they stay stuck because they think, no, I just gotta go and create the perfect system. And then I can go out and talk about my business, but they end up making no money and getting very exhausted. But I’m talking to the person who has, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of people on their team. And if you’re exhausted, if you are wiped out, it is because you are a manager. It is because you don’t know what it looks like to be a leader. It’s because you don’t understand the concepts that are necessary for you to scale your business into multi-six and seven figures.
Kristen Boss (31:49): So ask yourself today, am I a leader? Or am I an upline, an upline? You’re going to meet your upper limit. You’re going to bump against the, your ceiling of influence. You’re going to bump against all the, all the ceilings there, and you’re going to hit your income threshold. And if you want to seriously increase your future, earning income potential and secure your future passive income, it is non-negotiable that you learn to step into leadership and develop the framework that I teach. So if that to you, it’s time for you to get on the waitlist. The link is in the show notes, we’re going to be opening up applications on January 31st. Otherwise, my friends serve your people. Well, show people what to do. Don’t just tell them be the example and serve well, we’ll see you in the next episode,
Kristen Boss (32:50): That wraps up today’s episode. Hey, if you love today’s show, I would love for you to take a minute and give a rating with a review. If you desire to elevate the social selling industry, that means we need more people listening to this message so that they can know it can be done a different way. And if you are ready to join me, it’s time for you to step into the Social Selling Academy, where I give you all the tools, training, and support to help you realize your goals. In the academy, you get weekly live coaching so that you are never lost or stuck in confusion. Whether you are new in the business or have been in the industry for a while this is the premier coaching program for the modern network marketer. Go to www.thesocialsellingacademy.com to learn more.